By Beauty Damned

Here is the problem Maria - and it is much more complex than I can explain.

You have a very rich administration with very rich corporate sponsers who like Bush because Bush makes things easier for these corporations to do business. So naturally, the money enables the administarion to pay the right folks and make the media say the right things in order to keep the dins of masses in the dark, or at least the wool pulled over their eyes. Bush and co. thrive on a "fear campaig." All they have said thus far about Kerry and co. is he supposed inability to be a strong military leader. (I question this because I cannot see where Bush himself is a strong military leader being he served - on paper - in a national gaurd unit - at home - during the vietnam war - so I still don;t see how he is qualified to be such a great military leader). regardless of that, a president doesn't need to be a war hero to be commander in chief. That is why they have sec. of defenses and joint chiefs of staff.
But regardless of all that, even when a big time neocon like Kagan comes out and starts questioning bush's policies, it makes one wonder what their policy really is. It is difficult for me to wrap my mind around the idea that none of the people in his folds haven't a clue of what they are doing. That is why you have advisors. These people are supposed to be the tops in what they do. The thing that bothers me is the few that seem to hold all the cards, keep the rest of his cabinet in check. Cheney, Ashcroft, Wolfowitz, Rumsfled seem to be the trump card holders. They have their own agendas. Bush is the poster boy. He has an electable face. The rest of the cabinet are tokens. We already know that Powell will not be back for another term. Rice may not either. Many of his cabinet members and advisors have resigned over the last 4 years. Supporters will have you think it was either they wanted to leave or they weren't performing. Reality is, they cannot stand Bush's my way or the highway policy. Personally, i think Cheney is the one holding most of the trumps. Wolfowitz is a close second (yes, he is worse than rumsfeld). These are neoconservatives who have an agenda of using military force in order to spread capitalism. I think it is for their own gains.

But here is the kick in the ass. If bush is elected to another 4 years, the damage that he will cause will be irrepairable. It is already being said that the current tax cuts will wind up costing americans, in 2010, a hiuge income tax increase that wilkl take 30 years to pay down the deficit. That is if the current tax cuts are not rolled back. The damage he has done to our foriegn relations has been said by some very astute college professors is now irreversable. Middle eastern experts say that we will never be trusted in the middle east again. Others think our relations with the EU will take perhaps two generations to repair IF we reverse the course we are taking. So, another 4 years of Bush, I think we spark the end of this counbtry as we know it. It will be like giving him a license to go do whatever he wants because if elected, he will start pre-emtively striking other nations. He has already set to emabrgo syria. That is always the first step before going to war. Because of this cowboy neocon attitude, terrorist network recruiting is at an all time high. Thanks to the policies of the military intelligence to allow for humliation of these prisoners, the recruiters for these networks will make use of that to get even more. Bush is essentially trying to bring this holy war to our shores.

And damn near half of our country still thinks this fool should be in office. Again, if Bush is relected - you will start seeing a downfall. I for one may start making preperations to move over seas to australia. I have never been on par with any president or elected offical of this nation. Personally they are all asshole, crooks and liars. But Bush is anything but american. He and his posse are borderline facist and a danger to the stability of this world.

I don't think there are many conservatives that don't find fault with much of what Bush does. We just don't talk much about it because he's "our horse", and we think he's head and shoulders above Kerry.

I would hope the same is true of the ardent Kerry supporters. They have to realize, even if they don't vocalize it, what a train wreck he's making of what could have been a sure to win campaign.

Geoff - it isn't like he is making small mistakes that mostly every politican makes - we are talking about tantamount things here. Turn a blind eye to him not fully keeping his promise to restructure medicare exactly how he said, but don't ignore the fact that his administration is out of control and he has no idea of what to do next in Iraq. This whole tourture thing was not a random act that bush happened to be mis-informed about - this was routine and widespread - http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20040510/ap_on_re_mi_ea/red_cross_prisoner_abuse_15

and for him or rumsfeld not to know about this shows either one of two things - eother they did know and are trying to cover it up, or they are super incompetent at their jobs. Either way, they need to go.

Geoffrey, there is a difference between talking about it and admitting it. I will admit freely that Kerry is not the man I wish he was when it comes to sticking it to the republicans and taking this campaign by the horns. But he is a far better man than George Bush all the way around, and the fact that you and others can't see that is what astounds me.

Look at Kerry's life, his history. Look at Bush's life, his history. Now compare the two and tell me honestly that Bush is the better man. I am serious. Compare the two. Tell me that Bush is the one with more integrity, intelligence and a better grasp of the trials, tribulations and personal sacrifices of war. Tell me that with a straight face. Tell me that Bush dedicated his life to politics out of a desire to make the world a better place, out of a desire to help average people to be better represented in the political world. Tell me that he didn't just do it to please his father. Tell me he didn't acquisition the presidency as if it were a new toy. Tell me that his intentions were pure. That it had nothing to do with the fact that his whole life he was a failure and this was the one time when he could shine. Maybe for once reach beyond being the black sheep at the queen's dinner table. Maybe once he could rise up out of the cesspool that his life had become, shrug off his past failures, and it being unnecessary to prove his integrity or his worth due to his connections, he could float into the seat of this presidency.

Tell me honestly that he has more integrity and trustworthiness coarsing through his veins than John Kerry, the man who risked his life in war for his fellow man.

You and other republicans point over and over to John Kerry's "waffling." A small thing compared to the multitude of bumbling, hairbrained actions of our current administration. A small mole hill of fully defensible "inconsistencies" compared to the mountain of horsedung in which the Bush administration stands. There is no comparison Geoffrey. I can admit that Kerry is not a perfect man, nor a perfect candidate. That is the difference between you and I though. You can't admit that George W. Bush is the most monumental fuckup imagineable and that his fuckups could never be matched by any amount of "waffling" on the part of John Kerry. The fact that republicans are stuck on that issue like glue is just further evidence of how little ammunition they have in the fight against Kerry.

"We just don't talk much about it because he's 'our horse'"

Maybe you should consider getting a new horse. This one's losing its footing.

But he is a far better man than George Bush all the way around, and the fact that you and others can't see that is what astounds me.

According to the poll reported at rasmussen reports, as of today, 46% of the population feels exactly the opposite.

Tell me that Bush dedicated his life to politics out of a desire to make the world a better place, out of a desire to help average people to be better represented in the political world.

You can't be serious. Kerry fabricated his whole life to be an image of JFK. When the war hero bit failed to get him elected, THEN he became anti-war. His entire political history has been one flip flop after another to further his career. Any fool can see that.

Tell me honestly that he has more integrity and trustworthiness coarsing through his veins than John Kerry, the man who risked his life in war for his fellow man.

That's an easy one. Kerry can't even keep his OWN story straight for more than a few weeks. They guy will lie about anything.

A small thing compared to the multitude of bumbling, hairbrained actions of our current administration. A small mole hill of fully defensible "inconsistencies" compared to the mountain of horsedung in which the Bush administration stands.

Actually, that's the whole point. He can't make a decision, right or wrong. He's so caught up in furthering his career, he's become worthless to his constituency. That's been dragged through the press finally, so chances are he won't even get elected in his current position again.

Maybe you should consider getting a new horse. This one's losing its footing.

Unfortunately, using the best information we can at this point, that's not the case. The difference between you and I is that while I may not be totally happy with Bush, he's much better than Kerry. Anyone that will take a second to look at the issues can see that. Kerry can't even DECIDE on the issues, and we're supposed to rely on him to lead the nation? He can't lead his campaign. Unfortunately, you're so driven by your hatred of Bush you refuse to see things for what they are. I don't understand why you even care to have these discussions anymore, they really serve no purpose between you and I.

And where do the other 54% stand, exactly? Not much of a kicker Geoff.

Geoffrey, you need to refresh yourself on the comparative histories of Kerry v. Bush.

Let's review

It's pretty hilarious to hear you claim that Kerry will lie about anything, coming from a Bush supporter. Where are those WMDs again? As far as I can see, any perceived inconsistencies that you could possibly zoom in on from Kerry's side are trumped by the magnitude of the horrors which have manifested as a result of Bush administration lies. Point me again to the atrocities that have resulted from Kerry's inconsistencies?

"The difference between you and I is that while I may not be totally happy with Bush, he's much better than Kerry"

Now how is that the difference between you and I? Let's read it back again...again... Oh well, so much for that statement having an ounce of significance. You had me all built up and then you let me down.

I am not driven by hatred for Bush. I am driven by the nightmare that our foreign and domestic affairs have become under his administration's "leadership." But I can see how it is easier for you to believe that my political opinions are just blather to cover the fact that I despise him. Not so. I would like him a lot more if he were not such a piece of shit both as a person and as a leader. Did it ever occur to you that I may detest him for a very good reason? Because he is a crappy president?

And where do the other 54% stand, exactly? Not much of a kicker Geoff.

Well, according to the same poll, 45% of them stand with Kerry, and the other 9% are either Nader, Other, or undecided.

Let's review

That's a great timeline, but unfortunately it's also partisan. It omits things like Kerry's CO criticizing him for faking wounds to get a purple heart, Kerry committing war crimes in Vietnam, Kerry plotting to kill members of Congress, etc etc.

It's pretty hilarious to hear you claim that Kerry will lie about anything, coming from a Bush supporter. Where are those WMDs again? As far as I can see, any perceived inconsistencies that you could possibly zoom in on from Kerry's side are trumped by the magnitude of the horrors which have manifested as a result of Bush administration lies. Point me again to the atrocities that have resulted from Kerry's inconsistencies

Well, if you are attributing the deaths in Iraq to Bush's talk of WMD, then you'd also have to attribute them to Kerry, both Clintons, Daschle, Edwards, Kennedy, etc etc, since they all said the same thing. Again, you aren't being fair, you're being partisan.

would like him a lot more if he were not such a piece of shit both as a person and as a leader. Did it ever occur to you that I may detest him for a very good reason? Because he is a crappy president?

Sure, but it would be untrue. If you are using those guidelines, again you'd have to pass them on to Kerry as well. Kerry belonged to an organization that plotted to kill senior members of the Legislative branch. Every single one of Kerry's Vietnam COs claim he's unfit for command, yet you claim he isn't? I put my faith in them before you. Sorry.

Maria,
Neanderthals can only think to a certain point. After that, no matter how you try to explain something to them, no matter what kind of facts you give them, no matter how many times you tell them the sky is blue and they insist it is red, it will never get through. Now, I am not calling geoff or any other GOP supporter a neanderthal, I am not trying to insult anyone. I am trying to point out that these people, just like neanderthals, have a limited capacity to see something from another point of view. I don;t think it is because they don't want to, I just think it is something that is hard wired into them that makes them incapable of doing so.
Anyone with a functional brain with an iq slighty higher than a mongloid can see that Bus, as you put it, is a monumental fuck up. Fortunately, we have enough of a bi-partisan government of intelligent, albeit untrustworthy, people that know how to cover up just enough to keep us from sinking into the ocean. Fortunately also, the rest of the world leaders don't think like children and understand that these fuck ups don;t represent what we as a nation really represent. They also know, that even if Bush wins come this novemeber, he is gone in 4 years. It isn't going to be a lasting thing. So these smart people are able to do damage control to an extent. The only problem is, the bigger the mess, the longer it takes to clean up.
Sad is it may sound, that is how I measure the value of a president. The least mess he/she can make, the more valuable they are. It is not just a dem v.s republublican thing either - Truman, a dem, was a racist pig, and he made a hige mess out of korea. While Nixon, also a racist fuck, got caught in a lie and crookedness, but to be honest, was not a bad president at all. Carter, a pussy, kept his nose clean. Reagan, now he created a mess with his Reaganomics and set the stage for corproate welfare and non-accountability to this day, we still see it. Bush Sr. - just like carter, a pussy, but didn't make a big mess. Clinton, no mess and people liked him.
Bush Jr. however, broke the rule of all rules. It is one thing to shit in your own bowl and not flush, mess up your own living room, leave dishes in your own sink - because eventually you can take care of it whenever you like. But when you do those things in someone elses house, and than not even have the courtesy to clean it up, you can be rest assured you will never be in the favor of that owner again. Bush has made a complete mess out of an alrerady bad situation in the middle east. After a few months after 9-11 when we had yet to attack anyone, I was beginning to think this was a terrific president. Being patient, not just jumping to his guns. We couldn't attack an enemy yet we couldn't see. Afghanistan was a fine target. Get rid of the taliban, they needed to go. Iraq, however, was not a threat. We did not know enough yet. The sad fact is now we had all the time in the word with troops massed at the border, and we controlled the whole show there. But Bush decided to go in. WHich, eventually, was fine too. Huessine needed to go too. But now, we are ready to just blaze our guns everywhere, and skirt all the rules of war. Now, we are to have no accountability for the reasons we went there to begin with. Now, we righteous americans who needed to get saddam out because he was torturing his own people, are doing the exact same thing he did!
And our foreign relations with everyone else? Bush managed to fuck all that work up in a matter of monthds what took since the end of world war II to build. With the excelption of England, there are no other major EU countriues that really want to deal with us anymore.
Then, on our own soil, we cannot even disagree with this fool in office without someone labeling us as unpatriotic.
What truly showed me how low and slimey these GOP assholes are though is how the question Kerry's service record. The man served in a river boat in Nam. That was perhaps the most dangerous mission to undertake over there in those infested rivers where you were s itting duck. And they questioned him. Where their own "horse" shirked his duties and got out of serving one foot off of this country. How dare they.
You really have some nerve Geoff, trying to defend such a pea brained moron like Bush. But worse yet, you support the chickenhawks on his administrion and treat them as if they are demigods that can do no wrong. That proves, you are nothing more than a sheep following the sheep herder. Unfortunatly, this asshole Bush, will lead you all right off of a cliff.

Geoff, also, enlighten me as to how it is a bad thing to want to mold your life after someone like Kennedy? At least he is molding his life after someone who has some redeeming qualities. Who does Bush mold his life after? Cheney?

Cheney = Darth Vader

Cheney isn't darth vader - he is the emperor. He truly is the worst one behind this whole thing. You want to talk about evil, Bush is too stupid to be evil. He is just a face. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft. In that order.

Why do you say Geoff has some nerve defending Bush? That's the way it is my man...2 sides to every coin..2 party politics..that's what it takes dude. You say white, someone says black. I'm taking my mothers advice..don't talk about politics in mixed company because when it comes to voting day we all have our say. Let the chips fall where they may..no need to fight about it...it's all good. ( this posted by a happily semi drunk, fat housewife) :)

Maria,

Maybe you should consider getting a new horse. This one's losing its footing.

The funny thing is that had the Democrats nominated Lieberman, instead of Kerry, many Republicans/Conservatives would have jumped ship. The pr

About 30% of the country identifies themselves as Democrats. I think the Republicans claim about 35% of the population. The rest are solidly in the middle sharing traits of both parties.

Kerry is just too liberal for most Republicans to consider. They won't jump ship for him. Lieberman is more of a Clintonian style Democrat, he would have easily attracted disillusioned conservatives.

When it comes to principles and good ideas alone, I would have gone for Kucinich before any of the other candidates. Unfortunately, he didn't seem to have the charisma to carry him through. I will vote for Kerry because he is a much better candidate when compared to Bush on all fronts and I think he has a good chance of winning.

Oh, I agree. It's only May. Kerry has a good chance at winning, I just think Lieberman would have split the Republican party and guaranteed a victory for the Dems.

Interesting point of view. I never cared much for Lieberman personally, but then again, I don't know a lot about his politics. I like his demeanor generally, but never really felt him on a presidential level. I think if Kerry picks the right running mate, he has a great chance. I read an article today by Andrew Sullivan where he fantasized about a Kerry/McCain ticket. The scenario he presented was pretty intriguing...

The repubs LOVE Liberman. Why? Because he helped secure the vistory in the south for Bush. How? Let's be brutally honest - he is a jew. Much as we want to pretend it is not an issue, the SOuth (which I live in) is still very much stuck in their old school way of thinking. Maybe not as much as I may think, but just enough to swing the vote in favor of Bush. Of course, Nadar helped that too, but the general way of thinking is "I won't vote for no jew"
The harsh reality in the south will always keep our president and vp and old white protestant male.
The ideal ticket for kerry would be John Edwards. He appeals to the south. All kerry needsa to do is carry one or two southers states and he wins. The vote will look pretty much the same as it did in 2000, except, with the right ticket, Kerry can carry a couple of souther states and get the imbicile Bush and his facist croonies out of the white house.

I would have gone for Dennis too Maria. (Somehow I knew you would have, my love) But my suspicion is that he was born too early in the evolution of this society.

The man's ideals are mine as well.

However, given the intelligence quotient of the nation as a whole, he was doomed to failure since he is a man of peace.

John Kerry, it is my suspicion, is simply being advised to: "Say nothing and saw wood John. That bastard's days are numbered on Pennsylvania Avenue. Just sit back, don't be too controversial, don't get pissy when they won't let you take Communion. Bush'll defeat himself".

By the look of things, it's sound strategy.

I agree and FWIW, I too was very much aligned with Kucinich. His (and ours) ideals are way ahead of the barbaric way of thinking a large part of our society still hold to.
That is pretty much Kerry's strategy. Bush is buring himself. This torture scandal will balloon and as if that won't be enough, as this quagmire looms on, with no real plan, it will all swing enough votes Kerry's way come November. People like md mikey, geoff, chet and all of our GOP buddies can ignore these facets of the mess Bush has made until they are blue in the face, but it won't make it go away.

"I'm taking my mothers advice..don't talk about politics in mixed company because when it comes to voting day we all have our say. Let the chips fall where they may..no need to fight about it...

That's all well and good Sandy, but that is a sort of fifties-ish approach to politics in social situations. These days and in our current condition, I think it's very important to talk about it. Especially considering the state of the media. You really can't count on the news to give you a "fair and balanced" perspective on things, and I think it's imperative that people debate their political views. That's democracy. Not this crap of having "the truth" spoonfed to us from media outlets that are more interested in spreading rightwing propaganda and telling us WHAT to think than examining the truth and reporting the facts. We must sift through this crap and do it ourselves. That's why we have blogs. :o)

Of course we have a "fair and balanced" media outlet, Maria. Just ask Fox News, they will tell you!! ;-)

The 50's? hahaa...yeah okay but don't take to heart what I say after a few drinks okay!!!! haha..I understand but come one..don't you just have those days where you just want to curl up, forget about all the "bad" in the world and pretend everything is fine..I keep my "rose colored glasses" nearby for such days. :)

Yes, I do have those days Sandy. Unfortunately, I can't seem to escape my own mind.

I liked what Cul said in one of the other threads about making music and reminding himself of how beautiful life is. It's easy to get swept up thinking about all the sad, horrible things going on in the world, but it's nice to sit back sometimes and forget samsara and take in all that is pure and joyful.

But I think as much as you take in the beauty and wonder of life and relish it with all your might, you can never forget completely about the troubles that the world and fellow beings face. People like Mother Teresa and St. Francis of Asissi were saints because they saw the beauty of life in its purest form, but also refused to take for granted the suffering of others and thus dedicated themselves to practicing compassion and servitude. Something so rare in this world. What bothers me about this country and the people running it, is that it's all about helping ourselves. It's all about paying homage to the almighty dollar and buying into relentless consumerism, regardless of who you must step on.

I could not compare myself to the aforementioned saints in selflessness or dedication, but I aspire to balance both my love of life and my desire to make change in the world for the benefit of others. A part of that in my mind is to stand up against greed and power mongers. I feel I am doing some small part in speaking my mind and not giving up in the resistance against those who I feel are doing more to destroy peace and humanity in this world than anything else.

Being selfish is an easy thing to do and you do it sometimes not realizing it....I'm a Pisces so I easily get swayed or caught up in "fantasy life"..(yeah I totally believe in all that astronomy)