By Beauty Damned

wet·back ( P ) Pronunciation Key (wtbk)
n. Offensive Slang

Used as a disparaging term for a Mexican, especially a laborer who crosses the U.S. border illegally

I could care less if a few criminals are insulted. If legal immigrants are insulted, then they fall into the ignorant category. My use of the term "wetback" is exactly how this definition explains it. A laborer who crosses the U.S. border illegally. Fuck them.

I am a legal citizen born in the U.S. and I am offended. I suppose I am ignorant? I know white people who aren't even Mexican who find that term offensive. It is an offensive, racist term. I don't care what kind of ridiculous delusional world you live in.

p.s. Geoffrey, how do you live with yourself? Is it fun spending all your time stewing in your own hatred towards others who you perceive to be taking something from your privileged little life? Mr Beach-house. Mr BMW. Don't cry to me that anyone is "takin ar' jbs!" Your sense of entitlement is gag inducing. Your superior attitude and disdain towards those of a different social status is appalling. Your narrow perspective of the world, which consists of the idea that because you were born into the ultimate in social and economic opportunities that others who weren't should somehow magically manifest your same resources, is astounding. I wonder if there will ever be a moment in your silver lined existence when you will ever stop for a moment and feel compassionate towards someone who has less than you. That's not the right wing conservative way is it? If people have less than you, fuckem, right? If people are hungry, or cold or in need, fuckem, right? Because it's their own fault, right? It's their own damn fault they're poor. They could be well off and happy and living on some sparkling beach too if they were just as smart and driven as you right? Get a fucking clue Geoffrey. We are responsible for eachother in this world. Compassion is not a dirty word. Small sacrifices for the sake of a healthier world are not going to kill you. But you wouldn't know it by reading your ridiculous posts about how all these "wetbacks" are criminals and they're coming to this country to sully our green lawns and to "take ar' jbs'!" (don't forget to pump your fist Geoff). It wouldn't hurt you to stop thinking about your stupid laws and your stupid politics for a minute and think about the humanitarian take on an issue instead. Oh I forgot, you're not a humanitarian. You are a dog eat dog-ger. Perfect. What a beautiful world that makes.

I guess that's the difference between you and I. I have a problem with people breaking the law, you don't seem to mind.

I have a problem with people who are cruel and compassionless. And I have a problem with crimes which cause direct harm to others. Do I have a problem with Mexicans coming to America illegally? Not really. I think we should relax our immigration laws and let them come over legally so that they don't have to break the law. What a concept!

That's a completely different argument.

It's easy to stop immiigrants from coming to America, but the right wing has effectively stopped any real enforcement efforts because the labor is good. Should the problem be fixed? Definitely. Why do I say this? Because I'm a lawyer in California and I have represented hundreds of undocumented people in my career, and guess what? They are human beings! But the fact is as long as there is work for Mexican laborers, and there is plenty, they will keep coming to the United States. Farmers, restauranteurs, textile manufacturers, all kinds of industry relies heavily on cheap imported labor. And the laborers are abused and have few rights.

Our best hope is that Bush gets reelected, continues spending hundreds of billions of dollars to torure, harrass and kill Iraqis and spread our strange brand of freedom overseas, and drives our economy into the toilet. Then no more Mexican laboerers will come here because there will be no more jobs. So vote Bush!

HAhahaaa! I love you Thomas.

Maria,
You stand corrected:

Wetback is not a racial slur.

Mexicans are not a race.

Do yourself a favor and get informed on the topic, then come back to the table.

You are wrong, Gordon. There is no such thing as biological races. Race is a purely social/cultural designation, therefore Mexicans can be consider a "race as much as Chinese can be considered a "race".

All that matter is the comments are intended as racial slurs, at which point they become racial slurs and demonstrate the speaker as using a low calibre of speech using generalities inappropriately and in a bigoted or prejudical manner.

Calling a Mexican a "wetback" because they have broken some law is as stupid as calling a Jew a "kike" or a black person a "nigger". If that were valid there would no reason to see a cop walking up to a speeder he has pulled and using whatever racial epithet he felt like. Who would tolerate that?

Congratulations on your Mexican pride, Maria.

No, it's you that's mistaken Cul. You need to familiarize yourself with the "racial" categories established for the U.S. Census Bureau.

Sorry, Gordon, but I use science as a basis for my definitions, not a US bureaucracy:

"The common use of the world in English is to refer to a group of "persons who share common physical characteristics and form a "discrete and separable population unit, has no scientific "validity, since evolutionary theory and physical anthropology have "long since demonstrated that there are no fixed or discrete racial "groups in human populations. Instead, human groups constantly "change and interact, to such an extent that modern population "genetics focuses on clines or patterns of the distribution of "specific genes rather than on artificially created racial "categories. However as a folk concept in Western and non-Western "societies the concept of race is a powerful and important one, "which is employed in order to classify and systematically exclude "members of given groups from full participation in the social "system controlled by the dominant group."

Cul, Thomas, Maria??

Of course. But getting the likes of him/them to understand that reasoning is futile.

Maria your first post was on-target. This "I don't give a fuck what I say, cuz it's me saying it" attitude of this/these individuals is beyond reproach. And it's at these times that the depth of his/their pathology is entirely manifest.

Maria? If you're called that "w" word up there ^, then I'm a 'limey'. Curious that my Anglo-American background has no negative catch word to lump us into one diminished whole. Oh yeah, nearly forgot. I get to be "fag" so that can classify me nicely. Foolish me.

I would like to assure you that not all W.A.S.P.s feel similarly to what's been slandered across the posts in this thread. I am one and, by in large, (at least those in my family circle) are not represented by that Free Mason up there ^.

He/they would purport to be "patriotic Americans". To me they're myopic, frightened anti-social bigots parading around as "free speakers" replete with outrageous bravodo and undue self-satisfaction barely hiding a geniune sense of fear and inferiority.

There's a great saying that's come down to me from my mum's side of the family about just these 'types'...

"more to be pited than censored"

I'm doing my damnest to remember those words when I read that unmitigated bile that began the posts in this thread.

Congratulations on your heritage and Viva La Mexico indeed. You do your heritage proud my love.

Hey M? Don't you just love this weather?? I'll think of you while I'm laying in the dune today soaking up the sun.. I've missed our visits and have only now been able to check in to BBD. The site's looking hot babe :-)

Just to clarify the semantics of the matter, a wetback is a person from Mexico that has arrived in the states illegally. Mexican is a blanket term for anyone of hispanic decent, unless they are from New York. Then the correct term is "Puerto Rican".

Richard! I miss you! I am loving this weather more than you could know. Now if I could just get out of the office for long enough to actually enjoy it. "laying in the dune today soaking up the sun." YOU MEANIE! ;o)

Oh come on Cul. That's just laughable. So you're telling me that no races exist?

Miss you too Dollface but I see from the response to today's new thread you've been keeping yourself entertained ;-)

David eh?? Do tell....

That's right, Gordon. Do a search "anthropological definition of race".

There is than .00012 difference between any given "race" genetically...which is equal to or even less than the differences between individuals of the same "race". Scientifically the concept of race is purely cultural. Over the last few years this fact has become critical to medicine, in that our common usage of "race" can lead to completely wrong diagnoses based on it. There has simply been too much gene mixing over the few hundred years for whatever "races" there might have intially been by strict isolation of gene pools. In other words almost every human on the panet is a mongrel or mix of various gene pools. As I said, the differential has gotten extremely small between groups that they are all but completely irrelevant.

But the central thrust of this thread is really that broad brush derisive generalizations of people like using the term "wetbacks" to describe all Mexicans who have entered the US contrary to immigration law is always going to be errant because it is an over-simplification and removes the dimension of humanity from the individuals it is aimed at. Dehumanizing people is the first lie of war...it is what allows atrocities to be rationalized. In effect, what it does is remove the humanity of the speaker as well as their intended target, therefore in the final anaylsis, after the smoke clears as it were, history will assign the bigot all the blame. That's just the way it goes.

So you're telling me that wetback isn't a racial slur then?

I took a little poll today. Every single person I asked said that they considered wetback an offensive ethnic slur. I asked about ten people without giving them any background beforehand on my reason for asking. It seems Gordon and Geoff and their cheerleading team are the minorities now.

You're poll holds a lot of water. Good try!

Are you backpedaling on it being a racial slur by referring to it as an ethnic slur?

I agree that it's offensive, but it's not a slur.

No its a racial slur, because that is the intent from the speaker who considers race "real", the effect being that the speaker is doubly ignorant( note I did not say, "stupid").

"Are you backpedaling on it being a racial slur by referring to it as an ethnic slur?"

I love how when people have no grounds on which to defend themselves, they just start splitting hairs. To me the terms racial and ethnic are fairly interchangeable and do not necessitate a strong definition either way.

Is it possible for you to hear yourself for a moment so that you can realize how ridiculous this sounds? And how ridiculous you're being. Now you're willing to admit that it is offensive, but it is not a slur. Are you backpedaling? Because last I heard, you thought it was a perfectly acceptable descriptive term for illegal aliens and that it's negative connotation was not offensive in that context. Must I now post the definition of a slur as I already did with the word wetback, (which was clearly defined as an ethnic slur - remember the dictionary? n : ethnic slur; offensive terms for a person of Mexican descent)?

"Slur

\Slur\, n. 1. A mark or stain; hence, a slight reproach or disgrace; a stigma; a reproachful intimation; an innuendo. ``Gaining to his name a lasting slur.'' --South.

1. To soil; to sully; to contaminate; to disgrace. --Cudworth.

2. To disparage; to traduce. --Tennyson

dis·par·age
To speak of in a slighting or disrespectful way; belittle. See Synonyms at decry.
To reduce in esteem or rank.

If all of these things do not describe the intention behind Geoffrey's initial use of the word in his post, then I don't know what does. I know that you think my reaction to it is unwarranted, but I don't think that any amount of racial disparagement is acceptable. I think a person who feels that they should be able to use a term like wetback or nigger and remain beyond reproach because of their own sense of entitlement in all things should be confronted.

And finally, I think yours and others' assertions at DS that to call someone a name like "Moonbat" or "Repuglican" or to express dislike for a person based on their poltical or social outlook is equally derisive to calling someone a racial/ethnic slur or to disliking a person for their racial/ethnic or social STATUS, you are sincerely confused. That is why there are certain factors on which people are not to be judged: race/ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion...

The difference is that I hate republicans of all color, sexual preference and religious affiliation. I hate the republican ideology. I despise them. But that's different than hating someone because of their race/ethnicity. Do you understand that? And it doesn't matter if they are criminals. If you are bitching about illegal aliens, you can call them criminals, you can call them illegal aliens, you can call them assholes or fuckfaces, but if you call them wetbacks, niggers, spics, wops, chinks, japs, or any other known racial/ethnic slur, you are the asshole. Whether you think so or not.

You're making no sense cul. You claim there are no such thing as races then turn around and call it a racial slur? If there's no such thing as races then theres no such thing as racism according to your own logic.

Maria now calls it an ethic slur so clearly she even disagrees.

"I love how when people have no grounds on which to defend themselves"

Ha Ha Maria! That's a laugh coming from you. In typical drama queen fashion you start arguments at Dog Snot then run off when you can't defend YOUR stand. You pull the same stunt at least twice a week. The last time was when you were defending the pedophile's right to fuck teen boys up trees. You rpobably realized how ridiculous your stance was, and like with the wetback post - you ran off.

"To me the terms racial and ethnic are fairly interchangeable and do not necessitate a strong definition either way."

Then why the change in your terminology? Ha!

"I think a person who feels that they should be able to use a term like wetback or nigger and remain beyond reproach because of their own sense of entitlement in all things should be confronted."

Wetback and nigger are two entirely different terms. One is about a specific race, the other about a criminal who's an illegal alien. I'm amazed you can't differentiate. Don't you celebrate that gansta shitbag Tupac's music? Talk about a racist prick. Why's it ok for him?

"If you are bitching about illegal aliens, you can call them criminals, you can call them illegal aliens, you can call them assholes or fuckfaces, but if you call them wetbacks, niggers, spics, wops, chinks, japs, or any other known racial/ethnic slur, you are the asshole. Whether you think so or not."

Bullshit. Do a search on google for "Operation Wetback" and enlighten yourself. Yes, it's an insulting term. Yes, it's offensive. But it's not a racial slur, that's just your opinion.

"The difference is that I hate republicans of all color, sexual preference and religious affiliation. I hate the republican ideology. I despise them. But that's different than hating someone because of their race/ethnicity. Do you understand that?"

Hate is hate Maria and you're full of it. You just explained that you hate me for my beliefs. Do you understand that? You know the difference between you and I? I DON'T hate people for their race, religion, sexual oprientation or thier political affilaition. You do though. Worried about hate? Go look in the mirror sister-woman.

I can't believe you're still bothering to dispute the offensive nature of racist/ethnic slurs by trying to focus the debate around the definition of terms that are interchangeable. You are really grasping at straws Gordon. It wouldn't hurt you to admit that it's not any more acceptable to use the word wetback than any other racial/ethnic slur and move on. Oh no. You couldn't do that.

"Yes, it's offensive. But it's not a racial slur, that's just your opinion." Do you dispute the dictionary's definition of the word? It's defined as an ethnic slur. What other words in the dictionary have you redefined to fit your feeble arguments?

As for all your other babble, it's meaningless. The point has been made and all you do by making comments about Tupac is reveal yourself for the racist pig that you really are.

I don't run from debates at dogsnot because I have no response, I abandon debates there because I can't articulate a response to each and every idiotic comment or address each individual retard that posts there. At some point, it's no longer worth the time or the aggravation that it requires and a response only feeds into the inanity of the entire situation. At that point I retreat because I have better things to do than waste my time trying to make vacuum cleaners suck up a rational thought rather than dirt.

And Gordon, don't pretend like you don't hate liberals. You talk about it all the time. You never post about anything else except how stupid liberals are and your shots are always cheap as they almost never focus on an actual issuse. The most you can usually do is post an unflattering photograph of the person you are ripping on, i.e. John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, "Fat Hairy Lesbians," etc., and attach some sniveling little tagline. At least I can admit I hate republicans and at least I can post a plethora of logical reasons for my political outlook. More than I can say for your sorry attempts to bash the left.

Maria, you really are a hate filled little creature, aren't you? A misinformed and misguided hate filled little creature at that.

You cite Gordon's mention of Tupac in a negative fashion as evidence of his racist tendencies, when in fact he never said anything remotely racist about the man. Tupac was himself a racist, an admitted (& convicted) criminal, and in short a menace to society that we are better off without. The man was a peice of shit, regardless fo what the color of his skin was. I suppose I am now going to be labeled racist for pointing out this obvious truth. I criticize a black man of being a criminal and general menace to decent society, yet somehow I will end up being the bad guy.

For some reason you feel the need to continue fingerbanging yourself over the term wetback as well. You refuse to let go of the belief that it is a racist term in spite of the fact that the origin of the term has been proven not to be so. You can keep living in your own delusion world if you choose, but please leave the rest of us out of it. Everybody in the rational world will continue to freely & accurately call illegal immigrants wetbacks despite the fact that you won't stop senslessly whining about it. Get over yourself.

Packy,

You are not the sharpest tool in the shed so I'm not going to engage you beyond letting you know that "everybody in the rational world" does not use the term wetback. Only racists.

Thank you,
Maria

You simply refuse to recognize the truth. Instead of admitting that you have stuck your foot in your hate spewing pie hole you have decided to stubbornly stand by your previous statements, regardless of how foolish they were. Apparently you feel it is better to pretend you are right & call others names than to swallow your pride and admit that you have made a fool of yourself.

Au Contraire Monfraire. That's what you think. But I can assure you. I am confident that I am right and you are wrong.

"Apparently you feel it is better to pretend you are right & call others names than to swallow your pride and admit that you have made a fool of yourself"

I am not the one who started out calling anyone names. As I recall, this whole debate centers around Geoffrey calling Mexicans wetbacks.

The only people making fools of themselves are people who refuse to acknowledge the incredibly degrading nature of the term "wetback."

He called illegal aliens from Mexico - Wetbacks, not Mexicans. Is it possible for you, just once, to get the facts straight?

Is it possible for you to comprehend that because a person is a criminal it does not erase their ethnicity?

An illegal alien from Mexico is also, drumroll, A MEXICAN. Once they become an illegal alien, they do not cease to be a Mexican, nor do they cease to be a human being and become automatically deserving of dehumanizing terms. What is it about that that is so difficult for you to understand?

"You are really grasping at straws Gordon."
Actually you are, thats why you ran away from an argument on Dog Snot. You made a fool of yourself and couldn't defend your stance. You know it, but refuse to admit it.

"I abandon debates there because I can't articulate"
We agree on something.

"At that point I retreat"
Yep. Stir the pot then run becasue you are too intelectually inept to defend your opinions.

"As for all your other babble, it's meaningless. The point has been made and all you do by making comments about Tupac is reveal yourself for the racist pig that you really are."
How am I a racist pig for not liking Tupac, the Gansta Shitbag? For once, provide soemthing of sustance to support your argument.

"And Gordon, don't pretend like you don't hate liberals."
No pretending about me Maria. I'm straight forward about most of my opinions just like you. I don't hate liberals. I don't even hate moonbats. I disagree with them, but I don't hate. That's YOUR department. Hating someone for their beliefs is the lowest of lows Maria. Your insecurity is shining through.

"You talk about it all the time."
Really? When? I challenge you to find anywhere I've ever said I hate liberals or moonbats. You're so narrow-minded. I'm from New England dumas. One of the most liberal dominated regions of the country. The majority of my friends and family are liberal. Now who's reaching for straws? Even on the blog, some of my favorite regulars are liberals - such as Cul, Donna, and Connie. Good try though.

"You never post about anything else"
Expecting you to get the facts straight is like expecting Nunya to use proper grammar.

"At least I can admit I hate republicans"
True. It olny took another of your breakdowns to get you to admit your "HATE" of others with different beliefs.

"and at least I can post a plethora of logical reasons for my political outlook."
I have yet to hear one. I've seen you either run and hide after a breakdown or try to change the topic. I have never yet, seen you follow through on a topic - ever. Something else you have in common with Nunya.

I like you Maria and enjoy the banter when we disagree - despite our differences in beliefs. I wish you could say the same.

I love how you took my statements out of context and even lopped off parts of sentences that didn't fit your assessments.

As for my posting many good reasons for my political position, why don't you take a look at some of my posts here on my site. You know the ones? The ones where I post many supporting articles and lengthy analogies.

You're right, it's too bad I don't like you. Because you can't express anything without being nasty, derogatory and insulting. The reason I can't stand most republicans? You never just debate on the issues, you always get personal. You call names, you belittle. Without fail. Look at someone like Vickie. Do you know how much I would like to start calling her a host of seriously profane names (I'd actually like to knock every last tooth out of her mouth with my foot)? Why? Because she can't talk to anybody she disagrees with without calling them a moron or an idiot. She has no ability to be civil. But the only time when I have ever stooped to ripping her a big new asshole by cussing her out was after I had finally had enough of her name calling.

You, Gordon always resort to name calling. Geoffrey always resorts to name calling. Packy came here and the first thing he did was start calling me names and then accused ME of calling people names! Maybe it's a fraternity thing and not a republican thing. I do detest republicans. As a group I detest them. That doesn't mean I don't have friends who are republicans. As individuals, they are fine, as an ideological group, they stand for almost everything I oppose. It is natural for me not to like them and for them not to like me. The fact that you claim to like me shows what a sadistic and passive/aggressive person you are. You love to become engaged in conflict, verbally abuse a person as much as possible, and then assert that you actually like them. Truly bizarre.

Ha Ha! Not only are you hateful and spiteful - but you're a hypocrite. I'll be bcak in a bit with some copy and paste of all the "name calling" you have done on our blog.

You're so incredibly full of shit Maria.

I look forward to seeing these quotes. Since I can guarantee that I have never started by calling someone names if they haven't called me names first. So make sure to be accurate Gordie!

Oh yah. Good job changing the topic and avoiding all the questions.

Never saw that coming...

"I look forward to seeing these quotes. Since I can guarantee that I have never started by calling someone names if they haven't called me names first. So make sure to be accurate Gordie!"

Bwaaa ha ha! This will be fun. You are sooooooooooooooooooooooo incredibly full of shit! Look at you backpedal now to claim that "if they haven't called me names first".

Waffle waffle!

You are a complete and utter lunatic. And as far as kicking out my teeth? Try it bitch. You don't stand a chance in hell. You can't argue my points so you run chicken-shit back to your rag and post your threats here. Your rag, your option. Just don't threaten me unless you're prepared for payback.

And at the risk of your deleting this comment because you know it's true, that 160-comment thread over at Geoff's was full of at least 50 of yours rambling before I commented about your incorrect use of "racial" slur. In that entire post nowhere was there a "namecalling" or inability to be civil. On the contrary, it was researched to prove you wrong, and it was completely civil. YOU came back informing Geoff that you werent about to read it because I'm a "stupid fuck". Get your facts straight.

Vickie, every time that you have ever addressed me you have started by calling me a moron, which is why I refuse to read any of your drivel at dogsnot. Don't try to act innocent now. You have started shit with me numerous times. Me calling you a stupid fuck was hardly the beginning of our mutual animosity. As I recall it started way back when with you calling me a fucking idiot or a moron or some other such unimaginative insult. As for the physical fight that will never be, not much use speculating since we are internet strangers, but much as I would love to kick your teeth in, I've grown out of the phase in my life where I actually would do it. I like to think I'm slightly more mature now, but one can still fantasize. As for arguing your points, I highly doubt you made a single one that validated the use of the word "Wetback." That being so, it would have been a huge waste of my time to read them. The fact that you wasted your time reading my fifty comments before that is no fault of mine.

Funny thing is that you are so obsessed with trying to get one up on me that you all file over here to get your digs in.

Well I'm flattered, truly. I can see that I am intriguing and that I really get to you guys. The sad part is that it shows how boring your lives really are.

"Look at you backpedal now to claim that "if they haven't called me names first'."

Gordon, I'm still waiting for the numerous examples of my insults. And I didn't backpedal. I stated clearly in my post previous to that that the only time I have unleashed my wrath on people is when they have done it to me first. As in the case with Vickie where she continually called me names until I finally pulled out every cuss word imagineable. As I said at that time, I just try to give people what they want. If someone starts off by calling me a moron, I assume they are looking for that in return. Vickie has earned no respect from me since the first exchange we ever had started with her tossing out insults like rice at a fucking wedding. Bill has continually addressed me in threads with names like idiot in moron when I was just getting on with discussing the topic at hand in a completely tame manner. This is a pattern at your site and I have never once started it.

"Oh yah. Good job changing the topic and avoiding all the questions"

Gordie, you didn't ask any questions, you made a bunch of statements to further convolute the actual discussion because you could no longer defend your position that Wetback is not an offensive racial/ethnic slur.

Don't expect me to systematically respond to every ridiculous thing you say. Most of your assertions are not worthy of response. I still think it's sad that I'm too proud to ignore you in the first place. Vickie is right about one thing, I am a complete lunatic, because any sane person would have abandoned this stupid exchange so long ago.

"don't threaten me unless you're prepared for payback."

Payback? What payback? Is that like the twenty dollars you won in our previous argument? HAHAHAAA. Vickie you are so much fun.

You aren't paying back shit. Remember, this is the INTERNET. Are you blonde?

Okay..way off subject..but did you meet Tom Waits?

Hahaa Sandy! NO! I was so sad Tom Waits and Iggy Pop weren't there. But I did meet Meg White (White Stripes), Bill Murray, Anthony Kedis (YES! THE ANTHONY KEDIS FROM THE RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS!), I met Jim Jarmusch and Rza from the Wutang Clan (who was one of the sweetest, coolest celebrities I've ever met) and a couple of other more obscure actors in the movie. It was a really fun night.

I miss your blog sandy! I feel a little unhinged without you.

Maria..I miss my little blog too..but I got Jasons computer..I just haven't had the time lately to get on this thing so much..but it's Friday night..yeah Anthony Kedis..oh my gawd..I would have his children..he's so sexy!!!! Meg White..I just got done reading the review of Loretta Lynns' new album that Jack White produced..I hear it's awesome..but I haven't heard their duet yet..a song called, "Portland, Oregon"....oh and I've been all over trying to catch up on music lately and I took your advice...I think it was you..anyway I got some N.E.R.D...oh man..I've been listening to them non stop..where the fuck did they come from? So kooky but so fuckin' good...:)

Oh I'm glad you love N.E.R.D. They are so fantastic. Talk about having someone's baby. Pharell is my dream man. The perfect mix between hip hop and rock n' roll.

Anthony Kedis was very sexy and gracious. It felt like I held his hand for an infinite amount of time and he was totally nice about it. I was a little awestruck by him. He just made me turn to jelly. Even Rob was fumbling for the right words.

OH MY GAWD..you touched him? hahaha..you know I've fantasized about meeting certain celebrities and I always liked to think that I'd be all "cool" about it..but I think if Anthony touched me I'd faint..:) Seriously or do something stupid like lick him...haha..I'm so jealous of you right now!

I wanted to stay out of this but darn it Maria, you pulled me in.

I'm a BLONDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And a Republican...

You are a cruel woman hating my Republican blondness. [sniff, sniff]

I don't hate your republican blondness Rosemary! Nor do I hate you. But I do hate some of your views with a passion. For the most part though, you are a highly tolerable blond republican. ;o)

I feel a little better now. :-)

I know my boys will be disappointed but I find the term "wetback" an insulting, degrading slur. Whatever the meaning of it is -- it's still a nasty word that gets tossed at Mexicans a little too generally.

I know what Geoff was saying and I don't think he's a racist. He was spoiling for a semantic fight and he got one. Unfortunately, most people will hurl that slur without asking for proof of status.

I may be over sensitive but I grew up being called by the highly insulting and nasty term -- Polack. I kicked many asses during my childhood because of it.

"The difference is that I hate republicans of all color, sexual preference and religious affiliation."

A little backpedaling again? You said you hate all republicans.

Sandy! You have no idea how Rob lost his cool. He said "Babe, if we see Iggy Pop, please don't act like a groupie okay?" and I said "sure, no problem, I'll just tell him that I feel like he is a part of my family, that's all." And then when we saw Anthony Kedis, we both sort of gasped because he was totally unexpected. Rob instantly started rambling something about "back in the day...maaaan!!! Oh maaaan. Anthony Kedis, I love your music, I have always loved your music!" I had to laugh because he totally broke his own rule and gushed like a starstruck kid. Others around us, including established screenwriters and such, were equally wowed by his surprise appearance. He was the talk of the night.

Truth is, it's really hard to be cool about it. Especially when it's someone you really look up to. Of course you want to seem all original with whatever you say, but once you're shaking that person's hand, all you can usually say is "wow, it's so great to meet you, I really like your work..." They probably hear it a billion times a day, but it's hard to think of anything really creative at that moment. I just try to name something specific that they've done that I really liked.

RZA was easy to talk to though and I made him laugh by singing part of one of my favorite songs of his, so that was cool. He was super down to earth. If you've never listened to him, you should definitely pick up his Bobby Digital cd. It's incredible. He also did all the music for the movie Kill Bill.

Gordon, I also said I have friends who are republicans. They know I hate them because they're republicans, and they hate me because I'm a liberal, that doesn't mean we don't find things to love about eachother. I work with an old lady at my work who is the staunchest republican. She knows I can't stand republicans and she listens to me and my boss converse all day about what a dumbshit George Bush is, but we just don't talk politics me and her. Other than that, I love her like she's my own mother and I would do anything for her. And it's all good.

I'm taking off for the weekend. I'll be back on Sunday so leave your comments, insults and hate mail and I'll see ya'll back here soon.

Gordon:"You're making no sense cul. You claim there are no such thing as races then turn around and call it a racial slur? If there's no such thing as races then theres no such thing as racism according to your own logic."

I'm making perfect sense, Gordon. I'm saying that although objectively, that is to say, in the "real world" there is no such thing as "races" in the way that the word is most commonly used, there is such a thing as racism because racism, like other biases, doesn't have to be based on reality or facts. It is simply an assumed psychological stance or perspective like personal taste. A parallel is liking or disliking a flavor of ice cream or style of music. The difference of course is that racism has the intention to cause harm.

There is very little difference between the people who feel it is ok to call someone a weyback, spic, cracker, or raghead and the soldiers who figure it is ok to demean and abuse the prisoners under their control in Iraq. The latter is a pefect example of how "racism" as a state of mind, based on reality or not, harms both the abused and the abuser.

Yeah cul, there's very little difference between me, using the term wetback in it's literal sense, and the soldiers involved in the POW scandal.

/sarcasm.

Make up your mind Cul. Are you going to go by your "anthropological" explanation of races or the "real world" as you explained it? You can't have it both ways.

Sure he can. He can have it any way he wants since he uses his brain and you have none. Simple.

Geoffery: Actually you are correct, sans the sarcasm...there is little difference. Irrespective of the fact that you are tempering your use of "wetback" by saying that you are applying in its literal sense and therefore not using it as a racial slur against Mexicans as a whole, your intent nevertheless was to cast aspersions on (ie, cause harm to) an ethnic group and then claiming they deserve it because they broke the law.

The fact that you felt to rationalize your initial use of the term wetback by both of those things, demonstrates that you are aware of the harm that I and others are perceiving by that use. Your claim of "fair use" is essentially based on the idea that you are "in the right" by being in the dominant group which is not breaking the law. That is the basis of your assumed authority to denigrate other people who are not in your group.
If you look at that premise carefully you will see in it direct parallels in the assumed right of domination that was taken by the soldier vis a vis the POWs in Iraq.

The only difference between you and the group you are disparaging, according to your statements, is that you are not a law breaker. Have you ever broken a law? If so, then you are really no better than those you are disparaging, in fact perhaps a bit worse, because besides finding some disparging title you could aim at yourself (may I suggest "white coddled bigot"), you could also throw in "hypocrite". But its your call, of course, because I would myself never deign to call you things I know you are not.

Your whole argument is based on the premise that I'm targeting an ethnic group. That's not the case, and is what you seem to have trouble accepting. I'm targeting a group of criminals. I'm targeting a group that is having a direct negative impact on our workforce and economy. If you, or anyone else, takes offense to any name I apply to this group, slanderous or not, I obviously could care less. My response to you would be to check your priorities.

Regardless, likening my use of a descriptive for this group to the soldiers who are abusing prisoners is perverse and inaccurate. I think you realize that. If you remove the key mistatement in your argument, it falls apart.

I disagree. You were targeting a group, perhaps as an example of a larger group (illegal aliens), I understand that. I know you are not racist, and I also know that you care less about me or anyone else calling you on your terminology and that's fine with me...but that doesn't mean I'm not going to propagandize against your terminology because I consider it unhelpful in the broader issue, if not part of the problem. But there you go.

Agreed. I WAS targeting a group. However, the group wasn't based on race OR ethnicity. It was based on one thing only: To be a member of that group, you had to cross the border illegally with the intent of residing in the US without permission. Place whatever label you'd like on me for that, just be fair in your definition.

He was. You go on and on just for the sake of argument. There isn't any point to what you say. You just need to keep blathering on.

Do you ever find that you're in error Geoffrey or Gordon - ever? You both appear to have the identical point of view. However it takes both of you to try and promote it.

Which is the polar opposite of you, who doesn't seem to be able to put together ANY point of view.

And no, I'm never wrong.

Oh, I have a point of view, person, but I've monitored your pattern. I have no desire to waste my time as others have in logical refute only to satiate your obsession to have the last word. It's a study in futility as your forthcoming post will establish quite nicely.

I actually had the last word about 4 comments ago. I'm still WAITING for you to say something. I'll wait for your next pointless comment, which is sure to follow. Unless, of course, your therapy is working.....break the habit, break the habit..

It was based on one thing only: To be a member of that group, you had to cross the border illegally with the intent of residing in the US without permission.

So do you want to expand the meaning of "wetback" to mean anyone passing over the border from Mexico ilegally into the US?

That's what I meant, sorry. It's a direct reference to "swimming the Rio".

Told you he couldn't... "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds" Geoffrey.