I was on this silly site when I was struck by the revelation that some people just have no tolerance for children or the people that give birth to them.
Now, keep in mind, in the FAQ's on this site one of the Qs is:
Do you hate kids?
Answer: My personal opinion about children is irrelevant. I like many humans; I dislike many humans. I hate extremely few humans and hate no one catgeorically. This is typical of most other adult humans. What I "hate" is the irrational expectation that all adult humans must adore all children, regardless of the facts and behavior of the child in question. Nobody would ever dream that I must adore all adults -- in fact, I'd be thought of as pretty simple if I claimed I did -- but for some reason Americans assume that all adults must must must adore all children, particularly their own. I do not. Everyone gets weighed on their own merits and behavior. I dislike almost anyone or anything that acts irrationally. Unfortunately, that does cover many children. But it also applies to a lot of adults. This is not an uncommon trait among the childfree: they may not hate children, but they don't feel compelled to cut them (or their parents) any particular extra slack, either."
I certainly do not expect everyone to love kids or desire to reproduce. I think if you DON'T want to reproduce. That's good. Don't do it. The earth is populated enough. So I was enjoying all the rabid bitching and ranting of these ladies, when I came across this one:
Rant Number: 31256 When: yesterday
What kind: Garden-variety rant Where: in my e-mail
Just got e-mail news announcing "baby in store for 2004" from an old friend and his baby-rabies-infected wife. Not even married a year. BARF. Since prior to the marriage, I heard her say things "her biological clock is ticking." Was she some kind of BOMB about to EXPLODE? FUCK. THAT. SHIT. They make me sick. I don't mind children but that doesn't mean I want one, like them or will be all that interested in spending time with the children of my friends. I'd rather be drinking it up, dressing sexy, dancing every week, cursing when I want, having my own life, speaking my own mind whenever I want, and enjoying the peace, quiet and love that is my relationship with my husband. Why do I want to bring a screaming, squalling, shitting, mini-us into the equation? Just so I can train it and get its love? No thanks! Unlike most people, I have no desire to create a human just so I can fulfill my little fantasies about "having a family" -- like that was so great the first time around. If all women turn out to be, despite opportunities for growth and education, is mothers, then the human race has made no progress at all. The way people talk about children and families is proof that we really Narcissus, falling in love with ourselves and our own aggrandized sense of self-importance when, clearly, we are tiny little insignificant specks in this truly amazing universe."
I understand the answer to the FAQ. That is totally comprehensible. But the above post? "If all women turn out to be, despite opportunities for growth and education, is mothers, then the human race has made no progress at all."
Ahem, lady, a large part of the progress that the human race has made IS REPRODUCING our own kind in order that humans may continue to exist. I mean, okay, I can concede that the earth is overpopulated at this point and certain people should not even be allowed to breed. But if everyone followed her irate logic, the human race would just ultimately extinguish itself. Hmmm. I wonder if she thought of this.
I've known people who weren't so keen on kids and such, but a few of these people have downright contempt for them and their annoying parents. Which I can understand to an extent. But honestly, I think this particular woman might be suicidal and a little insane. Does she just wish she was never born at all and that her parents wouldn't have "trained" her and that's why she is walking around with this potato chip in her ass?
BUT I personally, love children and can't wait to have them someday when I'm a grown up. It's gonna be a few years yet. But when I have them, I'm going to love them with all my might. And no, not just to satisfy "[my] own aggrandized sense of self-importance when, clearly, [I am a] tiny little insignificant speck in this truly amazing universe." That is the most presumptuous thing I've come come across all week, I'm serious.
Posted by Maria at June 20, 2003 09:14 PM | TrackBackSorry...
Children annoy the FUCK out of me. I think they are self-involved and most people have them to create "little versions of themselves". The human race will never lack for offspring.
People like to fuck too much.
I think children are over-indulged, overrated, and overly discussed in this, the "new age of the child advocacy".
Quite simply; They annoy me.
In the inimitable words of W.C. Field to his child costar..... "SCRAM!!!!!!!"
Posted by: Chosesinconnues at June 20, 2003 11:45 PMWell said Choses. Well said. Though I do want to have children, you just gave me a good belly laugh.
"children are over-indulged, overrated, and overly discussed in this, the 'new age of the child advocacy.'"
I can see that.
"I think they are self-involved and most people have them to create 'little versions of themselves.'"
Yes, but I was a kid once and I loved it. I enjoy life. I'm glad to be living it. I had everything, parents who loved me and showed it and a life of total rebellion. My parents and I didn't always get along. I had a father who doled out some of those nonviolent catholic military school punishments and a mother who went pretty ballistic a few times, but I know I couldn't have chosen better parents if I had my pick. Point being, I want to be to someone else what my parents were and are to me. Not someone to emulate me, but for me to experience what my parents experienced in raising me and for my kids to experience life. Because it's great. My brother is the last person carrying our family name. I hope he has children. I know that doesn't make sense to everyone, but it does to me.
One of my close friends, Jess, always commented on how much she just couldn't stand kids and I always thought it was so hysterical when she went off about it, but I'm pretty sure I still want to have kids no matter what anyone says.
Posted by: Maria at June 21, 2003 12:09 AMI'm going to try not to be one of these annoying, pretentious parents though kay? :oP
Posted by: Maria at June 21, 2003 12:16 AMOh I hope I don't talk about my daughter too much..I really try not to be one of those kinds of parents..
I try not to think everything she does is "perfect". I love well-behaved kids..and too many times I've said, "Let me have that rotten brat for a month, he'll never be the same".
I'm kind of old fashioned about my child rearing and so far it's been working. When adults are talking my daughter does not interrupt. She has never pitched a temper tantrum in a store but once..I took her to the bathroom and swatted her ass and problem was solved. I tolerate whining for maybe 30 seconds-she knows it doesn't jive in this house. She stole some gum from Safeway last summer, I took her butt right back in there and made her face the manager. Kids aren't bad, parents make them that way. Being a parent is alot of heartache, it hurts when I have to punish her, it hurts when I see her fail at something, it hurts when she hurts...but everyday when she wakes up my love affair begins again. I only have the one, (female problems decided no more for me) so she's a tad bit spoiled more than other children, but she is well mannered, well behaved and no one makes me laugh more, no one makes me more angrier, no one makes me want to pull my hair out more and I've never loved anyone more.
I personally, do not want and have never wanted children. I love other people's children. I'll be perfectly fine with being the "Aunt" that can give the kiddies back at the end of the day.
That being said, my mother, who has always respected my stance by saying "I don't blame you; the world is too fucked up these days" has recently decided that "It would've been nice to have been a grandmother *sigh*"... Mind you, the woman is only 47 years old and has a nearly-20 year old son that has plenty of years left to make her a Nanny or G-ma or whatever name she wants.
Posted by: Daria at June 21, 2003 10:54 AMDaria
your mom is looking around and really noticing "grandmothers" now..I could only have one baby and now that mine doesn't need me so much anymore I DROOL over babies in the stores. Your mom like me probably is forgetting the bad part..only remembering the good stuff...baby smell, baby smiles, how fucking cute they are. She forgets the terrible 2's, the locking away of all the nice china, doo dads because you don't want them to break anything. The headache of back to school shopping, the sassy pre teen mouth. Your mom is having that "empty nest' syndrome..I still have one in the nest and I'm lonesome for a baby.
Trust me though, if you don't ever have kids, this will be one less argument that you'll have with your mom...trust me..you'd never raise it right according to her. You'll either be too hard on them or not strict enough and they'll spoil them so bad that you'll want them to live with grandma because grandmas ruin what you're trying to do...
You wanting to be a really kick as "Aunt" is fine..all kids have a favorite Aunt.
DOOD!
if the "children are over-indulged" it's the parents fault.
feel how you want about kids, but if you call ME self-involved because I have child, I may have to shoot ya!
Posted by: Ruthie at June 21, 2003 11:36 AMRuthie I agree...put the gun down Ruthie..haha..
I watched Maury Povich (yes I love that garbage) anyway he had 10yr olds who were out of control.moms were crying..kids were swearing, smoking, you name it. I kept thinking..I would beat their ever loving ass.....how does it get this bad when they're only 10? People don't want to discipline thier kids anymore. People ask thier kids if they're ready for bed, ready to eat...You don't ask a child, you tell the child. When a kid throws a fit in a store, you as a mom don't stand there looking stupid and announce to everyone that they are "cranky" or "tired". I hate when parents make excuses for their kids bad behavior...I have never done that nor will I start. My daughter was caught being 2 faced earlier this year and she did it to the wrong girl. This girl didn't beat her up, but told her I'm not your friend anymore. My kid came home crying and it was hard for me not to console her but I stood over her and said, "that's what happens when you run your mouth". She was virtually friendles for about 2wks..(kids have short memories) she learned a lesson and I didn't soften the blow for her. She has never gossipped again to my knowledge..holy crap I better stop...been watching Dr. Phil too much...going back to my coffee...
i'd prolly shoot someone with a watergun filled with really cold colored water. that's the extent of my rage
Posted by: Ruthie at June 21, 2003 12:25 PMMy parents are still in their 40s too and I know that one day they would be thrilled to have grandkids, but never a word of pressure. My mom has told me that she never regrets having children (though I know for a fact there were a couple of minutes there where she did regret it when we would make her lose her shit altogether) but that she does sometimes wish she had waited (she had her first child at 21). I know raising children was not even remotely easy for my parents, but I think they did a kickass job.
We were all relatively behaved when we were small - though my brother did have a tendency to scream bloody murder if my mom left the room and my sister knew how to throw a wicked tantrum. My mom says I was the most well behaved child until I reached elementary school age. It all went downhill from there. I really don't think it was any fault of my parents though. I was just a bad little girl. But I was never a spoiled brat. I never wanted anything. My mom still says that "you never really wanted anything, you just wanted to do everything yourself." Hmmm. I'm sure I'll be cursed with a child every bit as naughty as myself though...just for the irony of it.
I love my friends' children most of the time, but I did have a friend Tasha who I used to offer to babysit for once in awhile (she was a super young mom and needed a break sometimes) I am telling you her two little boys did NOT know how to act. When I took them to Toys R' Us and told them they could each pick one small item, they threw tantrums when they couldn't have the bike or the big huge truck. I was so frustrated because they were SUCH FUCKING BRATS!!! That was all because she didn't have the slightest clue how to discipline them and they were beyond spoiled.
Posted by: Maria at June 21, 2003 02:12 PMMy mom started that "I feel like I could handle being a grandma now" thing with me when she was mid-30's (I'm oldest and she was 16 when I was born; their anniversary is 6 months before my birthday :) I sent my brother a thank you card when he got his girlfriend pregnant ;)
Well, I'll be gone all weekend; helping my best friends move away to St Louis :( He's probably stressing that I'm not at his place yet but I had to eat!! CYa...
Posted by: lee at June 21, 2003 03:49 PMMaria,
Absolutely. Have children. It's folks like you that OUGHT to be havin' 'em!
Okay. Painfully truthful here. Notwithstanding my proclamation at the beginning of this thread, you put me with a 5 year old (either gender) one on one and I can connect like a mutha! It is so weird. I have actually had friends whose little tykes come by for a visit say "Christ Richard, I thought loathed children".
The other thing I notice is when one of my old gal (platonic) friends becomes swelled with child... from that point on it's all about the kid. You try to connect with them and all you hear about is the latest tird or the "exceptional intelligence"... UGH! FUCK OFF!
I have lost more good friends to procreation!!!!
I think it's the "all about children thing" that annoys me. You know. People get all gooey and gushy about having babies.. but when it comes time to care for our aged and elderly we become a disposable society. I have this sense that I have developed my purported loathing for children in defense of the irreverance for the aged among us.
I have a conviction that the exiting of this earth should be as celebrated and acknowledged as the entry. I don't understand what's so difficult about this concept.
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I think it's the "My Little Chickadee" movie with W.C. Field. There's this imp pulling at his coattails endlessly... W.C. at some point (aching with a hangover) cocks his head to one side looks omininously down at the little one and says (in his stage whisper); "CEASE"!!!
Ah.. but I understand that instinct.
Posted by: Chosesinconnues at June 21, 2003 03:57 PMSandy?
Don't be silly. Your daughter is perfection. She's YOURS isn't she???
You, my dear, are the exception to every rule.
I get to feel this way. Your my bestest newest oldest friend :)
Posted by: Chosesinconnues at June 21, 2003 03:59 PMRuthie...
Okay okay.. dun shoot me! I agree. But have you noticed the trend toward self-indulgence lately. JESUS FREAKING CHRIST!
If I get one more "kid's view" on the world... I'll hurl. What happened to, "if I needed your opinion I'd ask for it". Or, "When you are paying the bills and cleaning the house and contributing monitarily to the well being of the family, I'll let you out of the cage" (IT'S A JOKE!)
You know what? My parents pretty much adhered to the "because I'm the parent and I say so" philosophy. I am no worse off for it. When I neared my legal majority, I knew I was being given more of a voice in things. It was cool.
However, kindergarteners with a philosophy on life???
"CEASE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Chosesinconnues at June 21, 2003 04:07 PMThanks Choses :) I feel the same about you hon.
I HATE when I'm having friends over, we're having coffee, in the middle of a conversation and one of their kids walks up and cuts me off. I always wait for the parents to correct their child but they don't..My daughter did that once and I lightly tapped her on the mouth and said, "shhh Ms Kim is talking" Now she'll stand there, wait and say, excuse me mom..That is the only behavior I will accept. I've just never wanted to see "dread" in someones eyes when they saw me coming up the walk w/my kid. I enjoy her, I want other people to enjoy her and I want her to act like she wasn't born in a barn. But, even though I am a mom..I gotta say that when I'm out, or having adults over for dinner I do not want to talk about the fucking kids all night. I don't want to see the fucking kids. I want to swear, drink too much and have fun. Oh and fucking A people if you have a newborn or a whiny baby please don't sit next to me in a restaurant or fucking take your bag of poop to the movies....this ticks me off to no end.
Oh and totally off the subject..I've been listening to Led Zeppelin all day...it's like I opened the door to let an old friend in. Man..haven't listened to their stuff in ages. If you asked me today I'd say that Robert Plant is the sexiest, most soulful front man in the history of Rock.
I'm just dazed and confused today..:)
GAWD SANDY!
When I think how HIGH I used to get listening to Led Zepplin... shit it's lucky my brain doesn't look like that egg in the frypan on the T.V. commercial :)
Ahhh.. "What is and What Should Never Be"..
"and if I say to you tomorrow: Take my hand, child, come with me...." DAMN! I like that song
Been a long time... been a long time.. been a long lonely, lonely,,,,,,,
(and you thought I was just some Mozart geek ;-)
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Were I at BH, I'd be being admonished to stay "on topic". "But Reilly, reilly, I got too high as a kid, my brain drifts~~~~~~"
"Oh get off the cross Choses someone needs the wood. It isn't ONLY about your sexuality.."
IT ISN'T???????????????????????????? :-(
Okay, YOU be the one to tell it to Mr. Happy. I'm not gonna break the news.
Posted by: Chosesinconnues at June 21, 2003 06:39 PMWe have confirmation-Reilly is a woman...I knew it..only a woman would act or talk like that. I'm all about equal rights and shit..but Reilly does make it hard on other women.
Speaking of getting high..hahah..my Canadian neighbor and I were just discussing the U.S.A. stance on drugs...Susan said, "Oh bloody hell, smoking a little dope is no worse than a bottle of Jack Daniels"....Amen Susan...Amen.
Holy shit..I almost forgot...a while back maria had a thread on here and we got to discussing Canadians..well Susan is from Canada and her husband is English (he became an American to join our armed forces) anyway, they had a cook out couple weeks ago with alot of the Canadian and British forces stationed here..It was the most fun I've had in ages. Canadians are a fucking RIOT. They are so "real"..nothing phony with that lot. anyway just wanted to mention that...I have some fine Pilsners I'm fixin to get into too..
Posted by: sandy at June 21, 2003 06:47 PMSandy...
I just bought the most awesome pipe in Provincetown!!! GAWD, I adore you!!! ;-)
hehehehehe
Posted by: Chosesinconnues at June 21, 2003 06:58 PMWell I can't smoke pot while Jason is still in the service sooo I got my sandlewood incenses' burnin...listening to Led Zeppelin...aaaaaaaahh..hey where did I put my tie dyed t-shirt?hahaha..
Okay I'm feeling silly but have to close with one of my favorite sayings..
PEACE LOVE AND CHICKEN GREASE.
Choses...
"My eyes adored you..though I never laid a hand on you..my eyes adored you.."
Man I love Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons :)
maria
I checked out that Rant site..and it made me chuckle..I just read a person bitching because she went to the hospital to visit her dad and the elevator door opens, the nurse asked her to take the next one because they have a newborn inside. This woman is bitching just because of that....newborns are very very sensitive to germs..this person even wrote that the mother was holding it while in a wheelchair..anyway..that blog is for whiners and they'll all be different when they become parents..all of them.